Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2016 22:00:20 GMT
Within each political system and era, we have gone back and forth between a nanny state and a laissez-faire attitude about what people should be able to do and have control over in their own adult lives. At what point does the govt have a right to step in on a home and/or an adult and take over?
When should someone be incarcerated in a prison or hospital? Part of this question is the concepts of harm and consent...What do these words mean to you? And how should the govt enforce these definitions? Or should they? Should the govt step back and let these words be defined and enforced by the culture/religious hierarchies? When is the govt intrusive?
Also, at what point should society/the govt enforce issues that have to do with our bodies, our identity and our sexuality? Or should they be at all?
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Joey
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Post by Joey on Oct 11, 2016 22:17:40 GMT
Wow that's a lot to cover. But we have laws. I think most of us want laws. You go to jail when you break those laws or are a danger to society. Or possibly go into a mental hospital if you have mental issues. I think most people want that. I know I do.
The police have one of the worst jobs possible and lately have paid the price for making some mistakes. But what is the alternative to calling the police for help? Call the local Thugs that might rob or kill you when they get there? There are good police for sure and a few bad apples get in. I've yet to meet an upstanding Thug.
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geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix on Oct 11, 2016 22:35:27 GMT
Law and order. Two small words that most people prefer to let govern their lives.
Without law, there would be anarchy and nobody would be punished for their crimes. You could get away with murder. Literally.
And somebody needs to uphold order in society. Lawmakers, the police force and the court system. i think almost everybody can agree to that.
Then, we have the grey areas referred to by @progeny above. Where does freedom end and paternalism start? How do we define the border between them? Are there circumstances that move the border up and sown the ladder according to interpretation or special exceptions?
Paternalism has been practiced in many different ways. Before the American Civil War, slave owners claimed that their slaves were better off then freed ex-slaves, because the former had sufficient housing, food, clothes and protection, while the latter often struggled. But that was twisting and manipulating things out of proportions to use an aspect of an unfortunate situation as an argument to continue practicing it. Paternalism has also been used to defend the subordination of women by claiming that "we know what's best for you" without asking the womwn themselves if that is really the case.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2016 0:15:12 GMT
Joey, geriatrix, I err on the side of anarchy. It doesn't write out a state govt or law, but makes that govt more about the infrastructure than about the ppl. Where the power would lie would be in the local community again. Where the members agreed what the definitions are and enforced those. They would live in like minded groups. And work together for the group's gain and ease. It's hard in such big states to agree on common definitions as it stands now. It becomes far too linear. IMO
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mamafrankie
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Post by mamafrankie on Oct 16, 2016 12:51:01 GMT
The Government have too much say in people's lives. They should remember that they were elected BY the people to work FOR them, not make the people conform to what they want. I agree with Henry David Thoreau on this, the best government is that which governs least, if at all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2016 18:18:29 GMT
I agree with Henry David Thoreau on this, the best government is that which governs least, if at all. Thoreau is certainly a good person to quote in this discussion  Have you read Walden's Pond mamafrankie, ? |
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mamafrankie
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Post by mamafrankie on Oct 16, 2016 18:44:37 GMT
Not yet, but I intend to. It is the favourite book of my avatar and it was he who introduced me to Henry David, so to speak.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2016 20:58:28 GMT
When you have, the next person you should read IMO is Leo Tolstoy. He has a collection of essays on his view of the world. Worth reading if you are at all into pacifistic anarchy. They are the high water mark authors/philosophers of that movement. |
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Post by mikemarshall on Nov 17, 2017 22:35:28 GMT
One problem is of course the usage of terms that are now so wide that they have become almost meaningless.
Libertarianism can mean anything from Stirnerite anarchism to a Mafia-type attitude towards other people. The 'right-wing' branch of libertarians tend to mean mainly that they object to paying taxes and that they want to be able to kill or oppress anyone they do not like.
Conservatism too can mean anything from a rigidly authoritarian paternalism to a philosophy that is almost indistinguishable from liberalism except in its preference for tradition over experiment.
As for anarchy, there are numerous strains of that from the individualist to the collectivist.
And if you would like some reading suggestions may I add the name of Errico Malatesta?
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illusion
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Post by illusion on Nov 18, 2017 23:53:54 GMT
What about fascism, where does that come into the picture?
Is there room for any of the four in our modern society and which one would fit best?
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Have you read Walden's Pond 
