Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 0:58:30 GMT
There is a thread in the religious section that might argue that, and I do say might I'm no expert. I don't want to pull this off topic.  |
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Joey
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Post by Joey on Aug 2, 2017 2:18:31 GMT
My Stand is - live and let live.
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Post by andie on Aug 2, 2017 9:02:22 GMT
I still feel Markism can be relevant today.
I will just list some of the ways that is so.
"A class based analysis of global society is still relevant if you look at things globally.
Exploitation still lies at the heart of the Capitalist system if you look at the practices of many Transnational Corporations.
If you look at the recent bank bail outs it appears that those with economic power still have disproportionate influence over the superstructure.
If you look at how individualized we have become it appears that many people are still under ideological control – but we don’t realize it.
Work is still Alienating for many people.
Economic crises are still inherent to the capitalist system and that in recent years these crises have become more severe and more frequent.
Capitalist exploitation is so bad in some parts of the world that there is vehement resistance to it.
In Britain there are tens of thousands of people who call themselves Communists and who sympathize with Marxism and the wider anti-capitalist movement. Left Wing criticisms and the anti-capitalist movement is still very much alive today.".
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Post by andie on Aug 2, 2017 9:08:47 GMT
Just my humble opinion but rejecting religion would solve a lot of the worlds problems... Well I suggest you take a look at how all the atheist states turned out, the massive genocides etc... and rethink. You have never lived in an atheist state so you don't know what you are wishing for! No civilization ever developed out of atheism. That is the past. If one believes in the individuals right to practice their religion than I believe than they must also believe as strongly in the individuals right not to practice a religion...to be an atheist. Not only believe in it, but defend it just as strongly as they do the right to practice any religion. |
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Ariel
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Post by Ariel on Aug 2, 2017 22:04:14 GMT
Agreed. With the advances in the sciences atheism has become very common.
As far as Marxism is concerned, I think that Northern Europe has reached a happy medium between Marxism and capitalism. Somehow, we can't seem to put any of these principals in place in the United States; we can't even provide health and dental care despite being the wealthiest nation on Earth.
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kronks
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Post by kronks on Aug 5, 2017 2:11:41 GMT
Yea I think there has to be a balance, there has to be an incentive to better yourself, but that there also need to be an incentive to benefit collectively as as society and look after the less able.
Humans are both individuals and social beings, we are not one or the other rather a mixture of both and things work best when both aspects are advanced in a balanced fashion.
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kronks
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Post by kronks on Aug 15, 2017 1:10:15 GMT
Well I suggest you take a look at how all the atheist states turned out, the massive genocides etc... and rethink. You have never lived in an atheist state so you don't know what you are wishing for! No civilization ever developed out of atheism. That is the past. If one believes in the individuals right to practice their religion than I believe than they must also believe as strongly in the individuals right not to practice a religion...to be an atheist. Not only believe in it, but defend it just as strongly as they do the right to practice any religion. Yes I agree you have as much right to be and atheist as not to be. I view atheism as a religion anyway as in it is a faith based belief, they can't prove there is not God, it is matter of faith on their part. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 1:20:36 GMT
I don't see atheism as a religion kronks,... but you have a point.. believing or not believing do rely on a bit of faith.. Neither side can prove or disprove God. I'll just say if there is one then he is one mean, vindictive and demanding God.... (ducks and runs) |
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kronks
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Post by kronks on Aug 15, 2017 1:23:51 GMT
Agreed. With the advances in the sciences atheism has become very common. As far as Marxism is concerned, I think that Northern Europe has reached a happy medium between Marxism and capitalism. Somehow, we can't seem to put any of these principals in place in the United States; we can't even provide health and dental care despite being the wealthiest nation on Earth. For me science is a creation of God. So any advances there would not make any difference to my beliefs. Science does not explain creation for me, scientifically it is impossible imo. |
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Joey
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Post by Joey on Aug 15, 2017 1:51:33 GMT
My Dad was always religious but it was really hard to tell. He came from a very religious family. Sundays were reserved for boating and later camping. That doesn't sound very religious to me. But one time I was watching TV and something happened on the show and I said God did you see that! Wrong choice of words for dad. He let me know not to say it again. Later when he was in his 70's he and my mom started going to a little church. He asked me why I never went to church. I asked him why he never took me to church. He said I was right and he should have...but there was a lot of boating going on back then...lol. He liked to tell the preacher that story.
We went to church in our 20's. My wife wanted to get married in a church I didn't. But I said I would but we had to go to the church. I couldn't because I was in Basic Training and AIT, playing at be an Army person. But when I returned we went to the church. I had been sending most of my paycheck to my future wife (I'm a trusting person with the right people) but when we got married we really didn't have much money. We did have a couple beanbag chairs for the living room. And he had a bed. Most other things we had were given to us by our parents. Soon we were able to buy a couch...lol. I had a great job and my wife did too but still had to pay insurance and house payment plus utilities and taxes. THEN...we got a letter from the church. They told me what my job classification was how much I made and how much...to the penny I should be giving them. I was not happy that they were able to dig into my life and get this information. Sadly we were a couple just starting out in life and some needs had to be taken care of at home first. We left the church. Didn't change how I felt or thought but I could do it in my home sitting on a beanbag chair as well as the church.
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Ariel
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Post by Ariel on Aug 15, 2017 5:32:31 GMT
Agreed. With the advances in the sciences atheism has become very common. As far as Marxism is concerned, I think that Northern Europe has reached a happy medium between Marxism and capitalism. Somehow, we can't seem to put any of these principals in place in the United States; we can't even provide health and dental care despite being the wealthiest nation on Earth. For me science is a creation of God. So any advances there would not make any difference to my beliefs. Science does not explain creation for me, scientifically it is impossible imo. Somehow, I figured that. |
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Joey
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Post by Joey on Aug 15, 2017 7:41:36 GMT
Everyone gets to come to their own conclusion on religion. That's why the Pilgrims came here to start with.
Believe what you want, don't believe what you want. That's what the US is about. I don't want someone to tell me what church I have to go to or that I can't go to any church. That's my job and nobody else's.
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Post by mikemarshall on Sept 27, 2017 23:02:23 GMT
It is possible to be opposed to capitalism without seeing Marxism (or even other forms of socialism) as the only alternative.
Marxism is flawed in its initial analysis; too wedded to a rigid Hegelian dialectical method; too simplistic in its analysis of what 'class' is and too unwilling to tolerate dissent.
These are failings it shares with many other political philosophies of course.
One of the saddest realities of the modern world is that people in the West have increasingly embraced fanatical political views as an alternative to fanatical religious ones.
IMO neither capitalism nor socialism/Marxism are either fair or viable systems.
I will write more tomorrow but am about to go to bed!
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Post by Sophi Stix on Sept 27, 2017 23:28:17 GMT
^Good post!
Idealistic "isms" are so utopian in their visions that they lack the proper mechanism to handle failure and setbacks. They therefore need to adapt to the real world in order to function properly. But by doing so, they lose their pure character and become diluted. To keep them alive by military force isn't the solution either.
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Sept 30, 2024 9:57:24 GMT
Sept 30, 2024 9:57:24 GMT